Vince Riley, Equipment Manager for Caltech Athletics

Vince Riley began his career at Caltech when he was just 15 years old. He started as a participant in a summer program in 1978, and three years later, he began working full-time. In 1991, he became a senior building supervisor in the physical education and recreation division of the athletics department. Currently, he serves as the Caltech "athletics ambassador," organizing the daily functions of the athletics department.

In May of 2012 he was honored with Caltech's Thomas W. Schmitt Annual Staff Prize. The prize recognizes staff members within the Caltech community whose contributions embody the values and spirit that enable the Institute to achieve excellence in research and education.

Riley was a member of Caltech's football team for 10 years beginning in 1982.

DAVID ZIERLER: This is David Zierler, Director of the Caltech Heritage Project. It is Wednesday, November 13, 2024. It's wonderful to be here with Mr. Vince Riley. Vince, great to be with you.

VINCE RILEY: Oh, thank you.

ZIERLER: To start, please tell me your title here at Caltech.

RILEY: My title, I'm the Equipment Manager.

ZIERLER: You are the equipment manager.

RILEY: Yes.

ZIERLER: Where do you sit administratively? Who do you work for, and then who works for you?

RILEY: I provide support to management and our intercollegiate teams. I run the whole equipment room by myself. I work for Carly Horchler, she's the Intercollegiate Compliance and our assistant athletic director. We all report Betsy Mitchell, our Director of Athletics.

A Complex of Athletic Responsibilities

ZIERLER: You've been at Caltech a long time. Have you always been the equipment manager? Or is this more recent?

RILEY: No, I started off in facilities in Caltech in 1981. I actually got a job over at the gym cleaning the pools and Warren Emery was the athletic director. He knew my past coach, Tom Hamilton from Pasadena High School, and asked me, Vince, we got a club football team and I would love for you to come out and join our team." So, I join the team. One day, Warren asked me would I like to work for the athletic department and I said yes. He arranged for me to have a job at the gym.. I was the first building supervisor. That's what they called it at that time, the desk person that set up all the events, checked out all the equipment, set up for all the games.

ZIERLER: Before you, it was kind of volunteers, it wasn't professional?

RILEY: Yes, it was the coaches, assistant coaches, trainers, whoever could help out with the set up and break down. Most of the time, Warren would help out too. He was a hands-on athletic director. He kind of showed me the ropes. At that time, rolling up the backboards was a little different than now, you put a key in, and the motor brings the backboard up. Back in then, we had to crank the backboard by hand, so you had to be in shspe.

ZIERLER: Tell me about some of your responsibilities as equipment manager. What's most important in your work?

RILEY: Provide support to management and our intercollegiate teams and events. I think the most important part of my job is being supporting cast to our department. I do the laundry for all the teams, their practice gear and game gear. I do all the setup for our games. Maintain accurate inventory control systems and maintain equipment for all intercollegiate teams. I perform task related to operation of intercollegiate athletic events as assigned

It's a big responsibility with all the teams. Usually, in my position, in all the other schools, it takes two or more people to do this job. I guess with all the years of experience, I've learned to kind of handle it by myself.

ZIERLER: One-man show. Let's see if we can list all of the sports that rely on your work, all the teams here at Caltech. What do we have? There's baseball.

RILEY: We have men's baseball, women's and men's basketball, men's and women's water polo, men's and women's tennis, men, and women's cross country, men's and women's soccer, men's and women's swim and dive, men's baseball, and women's volleyball. We use to have football, hockey, fencing, and golf.

ZIERLER: You mentioned hockey and football fell off. Have any of the programs been added since you've been here? Are there new sports programs?

RILEY: We added, women's water polo, and women's soccer.

ZIERLER: Well, when you came, there were only women undergraduates here for 10 years.

RILEY: Yeah. I was here when Betsy Mitchell started the women's soccer and women's water polo program.

Deep Roots in Pasadena

ZIERLER: Let's go back right now and establish some personal history. Are you from the area? Did you grow up nearby?

RILEY: Yes, I grew up in Pasadena, I got five brothers and one sister. I'm the youngest out of them.

ZIERLER: How many generations back does your family go in Pasadena?

RILEY: Originally, my family is from Louisiana, but they came out here in the 50s, my grandparents, then my parents came.

ZIERLER: What brought them out?

RILEY: My grandparents and parents came to California because better jobs opportunity and housing. It's a lot of history in there because at that time, most of the people of color stayed below Colorado. My grandfather worked at company that poured metal, and iron, on Arroyo. Later, most of people that had the better jobs moved above Colorado. My uncle told me stories about Jackie Robinson and Mack Robinson. My uncle went to John Muir High School. He told me stories about Mack Robinson, how great of a athlete he was.I learned as you got older, everybody knows about Jackie Robinson, but Mack Robinson was a better athlete?"

ZIERLER: This was Jackie's brother?

RILEY: Yes, his brother, Mack Robinson. My uncle gave me a little education about Mack, and he said, "If you go and look up when Jesse Owens won the 200 in the 1936 Olympics, who took the silver medal." I looked it up, I was surprised because I'd always heard about Jesse Owens, then Mack Robinson took the silver medal in the 200. My uncle wanted to let me know some of the history story of Pasadena and John Muir High School.

ZIERLER: What neighborhood did you grow up in?

RILEY: I grew up in Pasadena, I grew up on a street just between Marengo and Los Robles. It was a unique street because on my street and around the corner, it was seven, guys that went to the NFL. My brother, my uncles, my neighbors, they played on the football team for Blair High School. In 1969, Blair High School and Bishop Amat High School Played for the championship and John McKay Jr. and Pat Haden played on that team and they both when to the NFL. I grew up around all those great athletes that made me be a better athlete. If I didn't knee iinjury, I think I had a chance to play in the NFL too. Everyone had a lot of hopes in me, But I did good too.

ZIERLER: What were your parents' professions?

RILEY: So, my dad was a truck driver and my mom housewife and watch kids / daycare My dad is known around Pasadena as Coach Riley. My dad is 91 years old, and he trained a lot of pro athletes. My dad was the one who'd go to work early, he drove trucks, he'd leave early in the morning, then come back, make sure we got to practice on time. Also, my dad was a football coach, officiai, and baseball umpire. He official for a lot of the little leagues baseball game and , football game. I was always was around sports and there's a lot of respect around Pasdena for my dad.

ZIERLER: What schools did you go to growing up?

RILEY: When I was in elementary, I went to Altadena Elementary, and then I went to Eliot Junior High School, and Pasadena High School. Me and some of brothers, was a PHS boys. I went to PCC too.

ZIERLER: And growing up, were your neighborhood and schools more integrated, or were they segregated?

RILEY: The bussing started coming in when I started going to Altadena. I when Washington elementary school and I could walk to school. It's a block away from my house. But they brought us from there to Altadena. But that was a good thing because it integrated us, and I meet new friends.

ZIERLER: This was a positive experience.

RILEY: Yes, it was a positive experience for me because like I said, we all were in our own little neighborhood, but when they bussed us, we all got to meet new friends from different neighborhoods.

Athletic Leadership From Early On

ZIERLER: What were your favorite sports growing up?

RILEY: Well, my favorite sport would be football and baseball. I kind of was a jack of all trades, football, baseball and track. My dad always had me in, football, baseball and track. I loved basketball, but when you have a coach for your dad, it's funny, there were certain things he wouldn't allow me to play. I was a great defensive back, but he wouldn't let me play defensive because he wanted me to focus on being a running back. I was a good basketball player, but he didn't want me to play basketball because football and basketball seasons are to close together.

ZIERLER: Because you were fast.

RILEY: Yes. But then, when other coaches coached me, they let me play both ways because I was such a good DB. My older brothers were running backs, so he always wanted me to be a running back.

ZIERLER: And then, on the diamond, what position did you play for baseball?

RILEY: I was a second basemen, and I played center field. They loved me to play center field because I could cover a lot of ground. I could help out the right fielder or the left fielder, and take away the little popups that usually fall in.

ZIERLER: And how were you at the plate? You could hit?

RILEY: Oh, yeah. I was leadoff batter, so the leadoff batter always got on base. But a lot of people didn't want to walk me or didn't want me to get on base because I would steal the base. I was a threat all the way from being a little kid to high school, "We can't walk him, because that's like giving him a double or a triple."

ZIERLER: When did you tear your ACL?

RILEY: I tore my ACL right after I got out of high school. It was an unfortunate accident. I was playing football, actually here at Caltech, and one of the linemen rolled over on my leg. At that time, we didn't have the technology we have now. My nephew tore his ACL and bounced right back.

ZIERLER: He bounced back.

RILEY: He bounced back. At that time, we didn't know too much about it, so you wear a cast for about three to 4 weeks, and then it gets stiff, so we had the rehabilitation knee. It took a while, but I was able to use it, but I didn't have the mobility I have now. I started getting the trainers at Caltech to start bending that leg and stuff out. It bothers me sometimes, but it could've been better if we had the technology we have right now.

ZIERLER: In high school, were you getting recruited? Were scouts looking at you?

RILEY: Yes. Well, the scouts were looking at my street. Everybody that lived on Elizabeth…

ZIERLER: Something must be in the water there.

RILEY: Yes, I'd tell people, we'd come over there, and you'd see scouts would come watch us play on the street. In my generation, we played different streets in football. The scouts wanted to see, like, "Where's all this talent coming from?" We people going to division one college, and they're going to pro, so they wanted to know. The common denominator was that my dad was always in all those kids' lives since they were little, coaching them.

ZIERLER: When you graduated, were you recruited to go to college and play ball there?

RILEY: I had a couple places I could've went to, but I chose to go to PCC. I wanted to stay close with my parents at that time. At that time, I had an unfortunate thing with my mom. My mom was fighting cancer, but she was a survivor of cancer .It kind of changed my whole career around and life.

ZIERLER: To stay close.

RILEY: I got a job to help my family out,be more supportive towards my family. That's how I kind of came to work at Caltech, because I was going to PCC, and I could come over here and work.

ZIERLER: What year did you start at PCC?

RILEY: Summer 1980.

From Pasadena City College to Caltech

ZIERLER: Growing up in Pasadena, did you know about Caltech? Did you follow Caltech sports at all?

RILEY: Well, I first found out about Caltech was, I think, in 1978. They had a summer program over on campus, and I participated in that summer program.

ZIERLER: What was the program?

RILEY: It's just called Pasadena Summer Jobs. They'd have it all around the Pasadena area, and Caltech was one of them. My dad said it was a good opportunity. He knew about Caltech, but I didn't know about Caltech, so I got there, and they loved me over there. Ever since 1978, they kept inviting me back every summer like, "Hey, I know you're playing sports, but we've got a job for you. You want to come?" It usually lasted from, like, July into August. But that was good experience for me.

ZIERLER: What kind of work did you do for the summer program?

RILEY: I was recruited to the PM department, and that's plant maintenance. Plant maintenance kind of helped me with my skills right now because plant maintenance did everything. They did a little HV work, a little plumbing work, a little roofing work, and alittle electrical work. When I came, I was such a good worker that all the shops said, "We're going to take him today." The HV shop wanted to take me, the electricians wanted to take me, the roofers wanted to take me, and the plumbing shop. I was learning fast. But I'll never forget that summer in 1978. We had a heat wave, and I was under Spalding Building at that time, and I was underneath the Caltech tunnels, They were cutting up hot metal, and I carried the metal and put it in a pack. I worked a whole week doing that They were like, "Vince, we thought you disappeared. You're a whole different color now." I said, "Yeah, I was down in the tunnels, cutting up metal." The guy who worked for Caltech, his name was Ben, he's retired now.. That was a good experience right there to see people weld and cut up metal.

ZIERLER: Did you come to realize what a special place Caltech was, that it had all these famous scientists and all these crazy discoveries that happened here?

RILEY: Yeah. I met a lot of people, like Eric Davidson, the biology guy. Me and Eric became good friends. I actually played on Eric Davidson's flag football team called the Tiger Toes. And he introduced me to Bob Grubbs, and Harry Gray, and all of them. I got to know everybody at Caltech, all the professors and became Lifetime friendships, I listened to their conversations, and they'd tell me about their research, and stuff like that. Before Bob Grubbs and Eric Davidson were deceased, they used to invite me to lunch on campus, and Harry Gray, and they'd just talk about all their different research. And they'd say, "Well, Vince, we ain't lost you, you understand, Vince?" And I'd just shake my head like that. [Laugh] They'd talk about each other, what they're doing, all their experience, and stuff like that. That was really interesting. But I think the most rewarding part of my job is just the students, seeing them graduate, hearing their experience. And then, when they get into the workforce, when they're alumni, they come back and tell me what they're doing, stuff like that. It's just a little part I do for them, and they always come back to see me and let me know the difference I made for them.

ZIERLER: Now, when you started at PCC, did you work at Caltech from the beginning? Were you always here?

RILEY: When I started at PCC, I worked for the summer, and then I had two months off, and Caltech asked me if I wanted to come back and work for them. I said I'd have to adjust my schedule at PCC. Once my schedule got adjusted, they offered me a job. And they've been supportive of me since then. But they always wanted me in athletics, Warren Emery and all of them. I met a lot of the people who have come back, like one of the swimmers who came back this year for his Hall of Honor. He said, "Vince, do you remember me? I was on the swim team." I was like, "Yeah, yep." Named Pat.

ZIERLER: Your first work with athletics was not for the summer program, it was when you were at PCC.

RILEY: Yeah. When I first came to start working at Caltech, I worked on campus, physical plant. And then, they had a job over here with the swimming pool. John Durden was the superintendent at that time, and he asked me if I knew anything about pools and stuff like that. I was like, "Nope." He was like, "Well, it'd be a good opportunity, and I know you like sports." John Durden was the one who brought me from physical plant to kind of come over here and start helping out. And then, I met Warren, and we started talking about football. Warren Emery was a big Nebraska fan, and he went to Nebraska, so he used to always tell me about his sports. At that time, there was a guy who went to John Muir, I think his last name was Bale or something, and Warren Emery was telling me about him. We got to talking about football, and he knew my coach. I guess he had saw him, and they were having a conversation. Next time he saw me, he was like, "Hey, Vince, don't you want to play football for us?" It was fun. I played 10 years for Caltech's football team.

ZIERLER: You played as a student? Did you enroll here?

RILEY: No, at that time, it had switched from a collegiate team to a club team, and that's why they asked me if I wanted to play. At first, I thought, "Well, you have to go to school," but it was a club team.

ZIERLER: Do you know the story of how it switched from college to club?

RILEY: Yeah, Jimmy Moore, was telling me since he was an undergrad–well, they'd switched before when it was intercollegiate team, then it went to a club team.

They didn't have enough student participation for it to be in a intercollegiate team, so they went to club. And then, Caltech got another round of students, where they had enough students to play football, so Jimmy Moore was on that last football team that was intercollegiate, and he also switched to the club part, so he was telling me the history of how it switched back. Our coach, Len Parker, he coached in the Canadian league, a professional football team. He was an assistant line coach. And he asked me if I was interested in going to play in the Canadian league. I gave it a little thought, but I told him what my mom was going through at that time, and I wanted to stay close to home.

ZIERLER: When did you start full-time at Caltech?

RILEY: August 21, 1981.

ZIERLER: Had you finished up at PCC at that point?

RILEY: No, that was the summer part of PCC, so the summer section was happening, and I was able to switch my classes at that time.

ZIERLER: At Caltech, was it only football? Did you play any other club sports?

RILEY: No, just football.

ZIERLER: Were there any other non-students on the team, or were you the only one?

RILEY: Yes, there were a couple guys from JPL and a couple guys from on campus, Don Thomas, guys who had football experience. And for a club team, we kind of brought it to the next level. we started getting a lot of press like Dan Rather from CBS, they featured me on a CBS News television station. And then, we had a USA paper, then LA Times. We were getting a lot of press about our club football team.

ZIERLER: Because it was a good program?

RILEY: It was a good program, and people were getting interested in the numbers that I was putting up. In 1983, we went undefeated. I think that was one of our better teams. And I think it was a good balance. We had a good amount of students on our team at that time, and they were real good athletes. Most of them played on the baseball team. We had a good football team, we didn't lose a game. That was the best season I had at Caltech.

ZIERLER: You had fun.

RILEY: Yes, it was fun. Like I said, it was fun, and it just made you have lifetime friends.

ZIERLER: You said you played for the team for 10 years. Obviously, your ACL healed.

RILEY: Yes.

ZIERLER: You were in full shape.

RILEY: Yeah, I was in full shape. Like I said, I didn't have the flexibility like I wanted to, like I had before. I could still bend it, but I didn't have the full extension. But eventually, it started getting looser and looser as we started getting better. With the help of the trainers.

When Caltech Had a Solid Football Program

ZIERLER: What kinds of teams did Caltech football play?

RILEY: When we first started playing, we would play some semi-pro teams, some guys that had a lot of experience or used to play division one and were kind of making up teams in different areas. And then, we played a lot of teams that were getting started. Like, we played Cal Poly Pomona when they first started, the University of San Diego, not San Diego State, but the other ones. We played the University of La Verne JV team, Redlands JV team. We only played them once. The time we played them, they were just too strong for us, they had too many good players for our team.

ZIERLER: At the beginning, you were going to school, you were working full-time, you were playing football, you were dealing with your mom's illness. This is a busy time in your life.

RILEY: Yeah, real busy time. But yeah, the history about Caltech, the program, it changed when I started because I started when the team wasn't really winning, like, basketball, the baseball team, tennis team. They weren't really winning any games. They were better in individual sports like fencing and swiming. When I came, they had wrestling. They had some part of gymnastics, but I think it was just ending. Coach Paul. Coach Paul was the gymnastics coach for Caltech, and he was my junior high school PE instructor, and I was always interested in gymnastics. I always tried, but I just couldn't do all the flips. That's a hard sport.

ZIERLER: Tell me about some of the work that you were doing in the 1980s.

RILEY: In 80s, I kind of did a little bit of everything. I help out with the fields, and track. We had a dirt track then. I would help out with the baseball field with Bob Townsend. Bob was our field guy. He showed me how to paint the lines, drag the field for baseball. He done all the outdoor stuff, but he didn't do the setups for inside sports. Warren Emery had me kind of follow him around a couple of times, since Bob was getting older, in case he needed some help. Or if he called in one day, we'd have somebody to do it. He kind of taught me how to do the fields and the outside work. I already knew how to do the inside work because Warren taught me how to do the inside work. But Bob taught me how to do the fields, how to put in a soccer field, how to put in a baseball field, how to put in a football field, the lines. Football is the hardest field to put in of any field.

ZIERLER: Why is that?

RILEY: Because you've got so many lines. All the lines you have to put in between, the hash marks, where the ball can be moved. As far as, like, five, ten yards, stuff like that, that's okay, but all the little marks you have to have on each side, you have to know a lot of measurements dealing with football.

ZIERLER: Where was the football field? Is it where the baseball field is now?

RILEY: No, football field was on the south field over there by Tournament Park. It had a little history over there. When I came, Fred Newman was working here for Caltech, and he was a good athlete. I think he graduated in the 1950s, and he was telling me he played football, he played baseball, and he played basketball for Caltech. He would give me the history about they were playing in the Rose Bowl, how good a team they had, and about Tournament Park. Fred gave me a lot of history about the Caltech team, about when he played in the 50s. Nowadays, some of these guys come back, and I ask if they knew Fred Newman, and they kind of tell me, "Oh, yeah, he was a great athlete." And Fred introduced me to a lot of the people he went to school with. He was telling me his experience of graduating from Caltech and going to, I think, IBM, working for that company. Then, after he retired, he came back to Caltech to kind of work part-time in athletics.

ZIERLER: Is the football field still here, or has that been built on?

RILEY: It's still back there. When they put in the new track, they kind of expanded the track in a little bit more to make more lanes. But you can still put an official football field in there and a soccer field. You just don't have the extra little sidelines anymore.

ZIERLER: Why did Caltech end its football program?

RILEY: Well, at that time, Dan Bridges, who was actually my defensive coordinator when I played football, became athletic director after Warren Emery. And he was saying it was starting to get expensive on the budget with football and hockey at that time, and they weren't getting enough participation with the students, so they had to make some kind of decision on which sports they needed and how to fund them. Dan Bridges was the one that kind of got the funding, talked to somebody to get the Braun Athletic Center built. I was there when he took over as athletic director. I think it was more of a budget thing. They just had to make some decisions on that. They got rid of hockey before they got rid of football. They said those were the two most expensive sports.

What Braun Made Possible

ZIERLER: What was the land before Braun was built? What was there?

RILEY: When I first started here in '81, that's where they used to have, I guess, their PE classes. They'd have full-court basketball courts going south and north. The old chain basketball rims and stuff like that. And then, just before Dan Bridges came in, they changed it to a half-court basketball court, and then they had an outdoor sand volleyball, and there was a little building right over here where Central Planning is right now. And then, they made a little equipment room on that side and a little weight room. And then, once Dan got the funding, about two years later, they started building the Braun Athletic Center, so it expanded and took away the basketball courts and the sand volleyball.

ZIERLER: What was the opportunity for Caltech athletics when Braun was built? What could they do that wasn't possible before?

RILEY: Well, it was hard to practice since we only had one gym. When the Braun Athletic Center came in, that opened up the door for multiple teams to practice. We didn't have a women's basketball team at that time, but we had men's basketball, and then the students wanted to use the gym. We only had one gym, so it was being used constantly. We just didn't have enough space. That opened up the space where we could have a bigger equipment room, we could have a women's locker room. It just opened up a lot of space for the students.

ZIERLER: What about racquetball? Were there racquetball courts before Braun?

RILEY: No racquetball, no squash. The racquetball and squash courts came in when they built the Braun athletics center. Like I said, the first one was a small portion, where they just had a little room built off the pool and a little weight room. And then, when they took away the basketball courts and all that, that's when they expanded and made the Braun Athletic Center building.

ZIERLER: Athletics got a real boost because of Braun.

RILEY: Yeah. As far as the sports side of it, it started getting better for the students. Dan Bridges, as athletic director, was trying to get them more sources, being more like a team, trying to get away from the attitude of, "We're going to just play. We're not expecting to win." And then, Tim Downes, athletic director…

ZIERLER: He was after Dan.

RILEY: He was after Dan. He kind of took Caltech to another level because he started hiring coaches who were saying, "We're not looking to just give up games, we're looking to be competitive and try to win now." He boosted the coaching staff and hired some new coaches. He said he didn't want to be known as a school that wasn't trying to win. It's okay if you don't win, but you don't want the attitude of just letting the other teams run up the score and stuff like that.

ZIERLER: This is unique to Caltech, you wouldn't necessarily see at a Cal Poly Pomona, that the students that go here are so smart, and it's so difficult to get into Caltech, they have so much work to do, they only have so much energy to devote to athletics. You're saying, though, that doesn't matter, you're still here, you're still trying to win. Is that the idea? That despite all of those pressures, if you're playing sports, you should still play to win?

RILEY: Yeah. We've got some unique student athletes. I think Betsy Mitchell moved it up to the top notch. I could say that. I agree with that.

ZIERLER: Did she come after Tim?

RILEY: She came after Tim. There was Wendell Jack, he took over, like, two or three years for Tim, and then it was Betsy Mitchell. Wendell was actually one of my football coaches, too, but he mostly had the same attitude of, "If we win, we win." He didn't have an attitude to try to make the student athletes better, try to get trainers, work offseason.

ZIERLER: With Tim's expectation to win more, what programs were most successful?

RILEY: He changed the women's volleyball team. He started working on the women's basketball. He was trying to get the right coach to coach the women, make the team a little better. Baseball, he made them take it up a notch, since sometimes they were just going out there and not really caring. He brought up the baseball team and the basketball team, especially men's basketball at that time because they went on a losing streak, and it was under Tim Downes's watch where they won that first game against Occidental, which I was there working. And they did a little documentary, Roy Downes was the coach of the Quantum Hoops, and they gave a little history about Caltech basketball. It was just so exciting to see them get their first win. And what better game to win than against your rivals, Occidental? Full house that night. I had to bring in extra bleachers and all that at times. I think the energy for the Caltech students, that was the first time the gym was full to capacity. And we had the attitude that we'd come to win the game. We didn't have the attitude of saying, "This is just our rival. We're just going to do our best." I guess that's what Roy Downes put into his players and Tim Downes as athletic director, talking to them. Whatever they said in the locker room, it had them motivated to win that game. It was a close game.

ZIERLER: Do you think the basketball program just had more talent on it, or was it an attitude adjustment?

RILEY: I think more of an attitude adjustment. Even when Caltech wasn't winning, they had some good players, they just didn't have the attitude where they wanted to win. They had a great coach, Gene Victor. He was known in the Pasadena area, Mt. SAC, stuff like that. He was a great junior in college. A lot of pro basketball coaches knew him. But to keep the score down, he had this format where he'd say, "You have to pass the ball five times before you can shoot." Just looking at the game, when Tim Downes came in, a guy could have a layup, but he can't shoot the ball. So, he'd be right under the basket, he'd come back out, and me and Tim was talking about that. It's like, "Well, the other team already knows because all they do is count the passes." I said, "I'm not a basketball coach, but if I was basketball coach, ain't no need to stick the other person if they're not going to shoot. Just wait and count the passes, and then when it gets to the fifth pass, you go get that player. And you double team and triple team him." And that's what a lot of teams were doing.

I guess Tim had a talk with Gene Victor at that time and told him, "We have to get out of this format. We have to play like we're trying to win rather than just trying to control the score, knowing that we're going to lose, trying to keep the score down. We have to try to win." I guess Gene didn't like the format, so he retired at that time, and that's when Roy Downes came in. Roy kind of took it to another level. And then, Coach Oliver, I remember when he first came here. Since I've been here the longest, he asked me what I thought about the basketball team. I told him, "The basketball team is going the right direction because Coach Downes has them with the attitude where they want to win." I always remind him of what he said to me. He said, "Well, Vince, Coach Downes is a great coach, but you're going to see something different. Not only am I going to win one game, I'm trying to win the whole conference." And that attitude, I'm like, "The conference?" He said, "That's my goal." I remind him that when we get in there, like, you want to take them to the max.

ZIERLER: Do you travel with the team? Or your responsibilities are all here on campus?

RILEY: My responsibility is here on campus, so I have a lot of different shifts. For example, they play on Friday night, the volleyball team, and they have a game the next day where they're traveling, I have to come in and get all their gear ready, get it prepared for them for their next game. It's a big responsibility, but I enjoy that because I get to cheer the guys and young ladies on, give them my little speech, tell them to have a good game, and stuff like that. And the good part is, they appreciate the work I do. They always give me cards at the end of the season from all the teams to tell me just how important it was that I always have a positive attitude. Even if they lost the game, I always encourage them and tell them, "Well, we'll get them next time."

An Olympian Comes to Caltech

ZIERLER: Tell me about when Betsy came. What were her priorities?

RILEY: When Betsy came in, I think the athletic department wasn't going the right direction at that time.

ZIERLER: Meaning what?

RILEY: Like, the administrative part and stuff like that, coaches. I think she came after Wendell Jack, and like I was saying, Wendell had more of the old-style attitude, just giving them the minimum, not giving them the best, not trying to get them the best trainers, the nutrition part, the training part. I'd say more of a high school athletic director. Some high schools, they've got what they got, and that's what we're going to work with. They don't have trainers, they don't have whirlpools, they're not trying to get anybody better or anything. Small high schools. But Betsy came in, and the attitude is like Tim's, "We've got to do better. We've got to prepare these kids to be successful, not only in the classroom, but also when they're playing sports." She's one of their biggest cheerleaders. You can hear her going back and forth to the game, yelling, and the students who know her are excited. She's yelling, "Go Caltech. Go beavers," and stuff like that. So, I think she put more in, and she got the resources to start getting them nutrition, trying to bring in professional people, trying to make the program a lot better for everybody. I think she put more investment into the students.

ZIERLER: Like wellness.

RILEY: Yeah, wellness. Checking on their wellbeing, making sure they're eating, making sure they're practicing, holding the students accountable. Just as the coaches, we have to be a team. I think it's a great job she was doing because basically, a lot of students that play sports were honor students, too. I knew a couple of them that played on baseball were a double major. It's hard to just be a single major at Caltech, but a double major at Caltech, and you're playing sports? That's a lot.

ZIERLER: What have you learned about that in talking to students? Is sports a pressure-release valve? Is it good for them? Does it help balance them from all of the studies?

RILEY: From all the students I've talked to, even the ones this year, it actually balances them out because they get to do something different other than just being in the books, doing the research that they're doing. They actually appreciate coming to the gym. I think, like you said, it's a balance. A lot of the student athletes, when they graduated, they went to grad school, or law school, or high-profile jobs, and they're doing well. And they always come back and tell me how they've done, how sports helped them get through it sometimes. We still have a couple of them–I always tell them, the first year and their sophomore year, sometimes students have a little difficult time, they have a little trouble. As equipment manager, I get to talk to all of them. They come and say, "Hey, Vince." It'll be midterms and things like that. I'll say, "Well, stick with it." If you always give them advice, like, "Talk to your advisor, talk to your professor, talk to somebody. Just find a resource." I said, "If I can do anything for you, just let me know. I know a lot of faculty members. Maybe they can find somebody to give you some resources." But after that, junior and senior year, they seem to balance out. And I think it also is a case where they were the best in their school, but now they're with the best of the best.

ZIERLER: You're the middle of the pack now.

RILEY: Yeah. I think that's where some of them struggle at. Yeah, Caltech, it's a lot. Like I tell some of the students, I said, "My dad used to tell me about sports, 'Every level you're going to get to, there's going to be somebody just as good as you or better than you, so you have to know what you want, and you have to work for it. If you don't work for it, you're not going to get it.'" You have to look at education like that. You have to keep working, keep pushing, and at the end, it'll all pay off.

ZIERLER: Have you ever met students that you felt were really elite athletes, were D-1 athletes, but they came to Caltech for the academics?

RILEY: Yeah, the first one that I met in 1981 was Jonathan Brown. And Jonathan Brown was on the football team, and he was recruited by almost every university D-1 team. This guy was about 6'2", weighed about 225 pounds, had huge hands. He could run the ball. When I first came on the team, I was a good defensive back, because I was getting a lot of interceptions, and he was a running back. And then, when he'd get tired, I'd come play running back. And Jonathan would say, like, "Wow, Vince, I didn't know you were that good of a running back." [Laugh] I said, "Yeah, I kind of play both. I love defense more than I love offense, but my dad always wanted me to play running back. Now, I get an opportunity to play defense. I'm enjoying this." I had fun. But he was the first. And I think for basketball, I think Joe was his name, he was a center for Caltech. He was pretty good. As the team goes on, there's always one or two good players that could've probably played on another team or something like that. But Jonathan probably was the most gifted athlete that I knew at Caltech that could've went anywhere. But he chose Caltech. And it meant more to him than, like I said, a free ride, a scholarship. He wanted the education part of being in Caltech.

ZIERLER: Did you keep in touch with him? Do you know what he went on to do?

RILEY: The last time that I saw Jonathan, I don't know what company he worked for, but he had come back and was working at JPL, doing something for NASA. But I know that he was an engineer. That was his major, engineer. When Len Parker was still the coach at the time, he used to come back and see his old coach.

ZIERLER: When COVID hit, you can't play basketball on Zoom, what did you do? How did you stay active? How did you stay interacting with the students?

RILEY: Well, like you said, I like being with the students, so when COVID came, it was a weird time for us in athletics and stuff like that. And I talked to Betsy at that time because Caltech had closed down, and I asked her, "Is there something I can do or help out?" The students had to leave so fast, they had to pack all the students' stuff and bring it over in the Brown Gym to store it. When students graduated, we'd ship it to them, stuff like that. It kind of helped me in COVID because I could come in for two or three hours and do something. She had to get a letter, and I'd come and help with the students, get their stuff ready. You're kind of still being there for the students like that. It was good that she was able to be at housing and drop stuff off over here, and then we'd store it and put it under a little section under their last name, and we'd know where it is and log it on. And then, when they'd come pick it up, they'd call, and if they'd come on a Monday at 1 o'clock, I'd have the stuff ready for them to come out to their car, put it by their car. But it was an interesting time for the students.

ZIERLER: It must've been nice to get back to normal after COVID.

RILEY: Oh, yeah, it was really nice. [Laugh] Just to see the students. I was so used to seeing them out there on the field and stuff like that, and just not see anybody in the gym or anything, I think for the students, it could've been a depressing time. They did everything online and stuff like that. When they came back, they were just so happy to be in the gym. I think it helped out a lot of our teams because now, you see they're in the weight room, just standing around the gym. They're still doing their work on campus, but they wanted to be out doing something. It kind of made them work out a little more instead of coming into the season not in shape. They were in shape before the season because they'd missed that part of being with their teammates, working out, and stuff like that.

Faculty Commitment to Caltech Athletics

ZIERLER: Well, now that we've brought the conversation to post-COVID, right to the present, I'd like to ask, for the last part of our talk, sort of two questions reflecting on your career, and then we'll end looking to the future. First, coming here since 1981, you've seen a lot of presidents of Caltech come and go, lots of division chairs, lots of board of trustees members. Who in Caltech leadership sticks out in your memory as having appreciated the importance of athletics, and supported Caltech athletics, and provided resources for Caltech athletics? Who have been some of the champions of the program over the years?

RILEY: I think there are a lot of them. But I think one who was part of our athletic committee was Bob Grubbs, Nobel Prize winner. He had a daughter who played professional sports, and she used to come play basketball. He was one of the ones that really wanted to push athletics and help them out, whatever they needed. He wanted to get more student athletes in and give them what they needed to have to get into Caltech. And John, I can't think of his last name, but he was on our athletic committee, he's a big swimmer and stuff like that. I think him and Betsy worked a lot on trying to get more students with athletic experience in, trying to help them on campus. From my experience listening to all the professors and faculty members, for the most part, I think what they were struggling with was how Caltech had the faculty members decide which students got in and which didn't. It was hard because I think if you said something about athletics, you probably got pushed into one pool, but if you said something about science, you were in another pool because they're looking for the next Nobel Prize winner, next scientist, stuff like that. I think some of the faculty members that Betsy started interacting with kind of know the importance of being in athletics, too. Some of them might've played sports in their lifetime, so they know how sports helped them. I think they put all that together and came up with some kind of formula that helped out a little bit to try to get some of our students in. It's hard for our teams because, like, Cal Lutheran, La Verne, each year, if one group graduates, they're getting 10, 15, 20 athletes coming in, and now we have to compete with them.

ZIERLER: It's a bigger pool of talent there.

RILEY: And they're getting them for individual sports. We're not getting them for individual sports. I think Caltech is great in athletics because we're competing, and we don't get the pool of people that the other teams in our conference that they're getting.

ZIERLER: Caltech punches above its weight, you're saying.

RILEY: Yeah. That's why I think the level of respect is a lot higher. They used to look at Caltech and say, "That's a win for us on our record." Now, it's more like they're playing their best player, their strategy, scouting, everything they try to do because Caltech is competing with them.

ZIERLER: Of all the students that you've helped, all the games that you've prepped, what's most meaningful to you? What gives you the greatest satisfaction?

RILEY: I think the most satisfaction, to me, is when I see them graduate. They always ask me to come when they graduate, they introduce me to their parents, tell them what I've done for them. And the parents already know me before I even know them because the students tell them the story a lot, "We've got this equipment manager, he does everything for us, always cheering us on," stuff like that. I think I'm their best cheerleader, and also, when Betsy Mitchell came, the wellbeing part–there always was a wellbeing part, but I kind of look to see if some of our students are down, depressed, having struggles, things like that.

ZIERLER: You might see that before even their professors see it.

RILEY: Yeah. Betsy started getting us into all this training and giving us resources. Like, for example, this year, we got some freshmen for men's basketball, and when they played in high school, they were the better player. Now, they're coming in this year, and they're saying, "Oh, these guys are good." And I'm saying, "Well, that makes you want to work harder. Work harder in practice." And they appreciate it because I'm pushing them to the next level. I said, "You have to prepare yourself so when you do get your chance, you show Coach Oliver that you're ready to play." They're like, "Yeah, I thank you for giving me that pep talk. I was thinking, like, 'I'm never going to get into the game.'" I said, "Just like you practice hard at practice, you wait on your opportunity to get in there, and once you get in there, show the coach what you can do." I always tell the student athletes–once I get close to them, they start saying, "Hey, Vince, how you doing?" Or Mr. Riley. When we have that level where we can talk about sports, I say, "My dad was my biggest critic because he always wanted me better. And I want you to get better. He used to always tell me, 'You've got to work harder. You've got to work harder.'"

And I was telling one of the freshmen, Josh, this year, "After practice, my dad used to tell me, 'I need you to run some extra laps.'" And I was like, "Why am I running extra laps? Why isn't everybody else?" Stuff like that. It was preparing me so at the end of the game, when everybody's tired, I'm able to have the extra energy and able to go on. And I notice now the coaches are pushing their players, like the soccer team and stuff like that, to get them in better shape because that actually helps. When they tell me, like, "Oh, we really had a hard practice," I tell them, "Oh, well, that's how you get better. Got to keep pushing you and pushing you." The men's soccer team would tell me that the coach pushed them real hard, and then the last game, they beat one of the teams in our conference, a good team. They beat them, I think, by five goals or something like that. That's a testimony. I said, "See? That practice that the coach was pushing you and telling you you've got to better, you guys can do it."

ZIERLER: That's great. That's great.

RILEY: The men's soccer players, when they came back, they were so happy. They said, "Vince, you were right. You were right." I would say, "That practice is going to make you better. Just look at it like that. He's pushing you guys to the level that he wants you to get to. Just look at it like that. Last game before that, you guys didn't play up to your potential, so now he's pushing you guys. Now, he can sit back and, at the end of the season, let you guys go the other way, but now you've got something to go into next season positive because you beat one of the top-ranked teams, and you handled them pretty good. Now, they're thinking on the offseason, "We have to worry about this Caltech team."

ZIERLER: That's great. Well, you brought some things you wanted to show me here. Let's take a look. What are we looking at?

RILEY: This was our little trophy that they gave us in the league. It was 1983, and we were the western champs.

ZIERLER: What is NCFA?

RILEY: I always said it was the Collegiate Football Association, but I don't know what the N–I don't know if it's national. This was Len Parker, he was our football coach and also coached a professional team in Canada. And at that time, I was…

ZIERLER: That's you, running back.

RILEY: Yeah, I was the running back.

ZIERLER: You're about to score a touchdown, it looks like.

RILEY: Yeah. And like I was saying, this picture means the most to me because we have the Caltech students, and this was a strong Caltech team. We have a couple staff people in there, but there were a lot of students in there. And this was one of the best teams that we had. Len Parker just got us all together and had us playing like we were champs.

ZIERLER: Western champs, 1983.

RILEY: And that's what we became, western champs. I just wanted to share that with you.

ZIERLER: That's wonderful.

RILEY: There were a lot of Caltech students, and these students became good friends. And they still come back if they do a speech or do some research over here, and they stop by, and they say, "Hey, Vince. We had that team, we played football." There are a lot of good memories with that picture.

ZIERLER: That's so nice. And what's this trophy over here?

RILEY: And this is the trophy they sent to me. Len Parker. Again, the history, the good athletes, the best running back and stuff like that in '69. It started all the way back in '69, and it goes all the way to…

ZIERLER: I see Vince Riley right here, '87.

RILEY: Yeah, and I was three-time most valuable back.

ZIERLER: Oh, wow. Up here, it's the Irv Noren Outstanding Back Award. Do you know who Noren was?

RILEY: I know Len Parker told me he was one of the great Caltech football players at that time. I didn't see him, but it was way before my time. That's the year Jonathan Brown–I don't have my glasses.

ZIERLER: '81.

RILEY: '81. That's what I was saying. This guy was the…

ZIERLER: He was it.

RILEY: Yeah.

ZIERLER: Wow.

RILEY: He was the most talented athlete that you've seen and one of the biggest guys I've seen. I've seen some guys that lived on my street that were professional. But just to see somebody at Caltech, that size like that, and just to hear his experience and him saying why he came to Caltech, he didn't come for sports, he wanted the education part, being a scientist.

Caltech Uniqueness Extends to Athletics

ZIERLER: Amazing. Vince, I've got one last question for you, looking to the future. When the time comes, hopefully not too soon, when you retire, and it's time to train your successor, beyond the ins and outs, the technical details of being equipment manager, what will you want to tell them about being at Caltech? What do you want to convey to them from all your experience?

RILEY: Well, Caltech is a unique place, like I was saying. My successor, I want him to understand how important the student athletes are over here. The part that we do is a big part of their success on campus, too, because we give them the support. We're just a supporting cast. I want that person to just be able to understand what this job entails. It's not just, "Oh, I'm just going to give them a uniform, and I'm not really worried about it." Basically, you're the eyes for the athletic department, for Betsy Mitchell or the coaches.

ZIERLER: You see what's going on all over.

RILEY: A lot of these players get close to their coaches, and they're able to tell their coaches, but a lot of times, being the equipment manager, students feel comfortable in sharing things with you, like I said, if they're struggling in their education part. They feel that you're a part of the Institute. To put it in a better example, we had a student, one of our better student athletes. Actually, two students, one on our volleyball team, one on our baseball team. They just were sharing to me that their education part over on campus was a little heavier than they thought. They were going to have to step down from sports for a year and get back on track with their education part. I told them, "It's okay. I know you come here for the education part, but always have a story to tell." A lot of people might take one year. I say, "You're not the only student to take a year off to kind of work on that." Then, they'll come back when it gets a little easier because they missed the part of playing. It brings a smile to their face. They say, "Well, Vince, I wanted to you let you know, you did a lot for me. I'm coming back. I'm coming back for my senior year." I say, "Okay." That makes you feel good. Usually, they'll tell the coach, but I'm like their supporting cast, so they want to let me know, "I'll be back." I understand.

ZIERLER: That's wonderful. Well, Vince, I want to thank you so much for spending this time with me. It's wonderful for Caltech history. Thank you.

[END]